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Thread: V̀ SAO DU HỌC SINH VN KHÔNG QUAY VỀ PHỤC VỤ ĐẤT NƯỚC ?

  1. #11
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    Làm thế nào đại học Mỹ khuyến khích sinh viên Mỹ gian lận trong việc học hành

    How college classes encourage cheating

    Our universities motivate students to be dishonest. Here’s how to fix them.

    By James M. Lang | AUGUST 04, 2013


    WHEN THE FALL semester opens at Harvard University in just a few short weeks, the campus will still be echoing from the cheating scandal last year that saw the suspension of more than 60 students in a government course.

    The scandal grabbed attention because of the shock value of the headline’s pairing: Harvard students and cheating. Most commentators zeroed in on the students—apparently lazy and dishonest, for all their talent—or on the hypercompetitive culture of America’s most prestigious university. Still others suggested that cheating has become commonplace in our schools as the result of the increasingly amoral larger society in which they operate.


    Sinh viên Mỹ gian lận trong thi cử học hành

    What these arguments have in common is the assumption that students are cheating much more than they used to. In fact, the rate of students who admit to cheating at least once in their college careers has held steady at somewhere around 75 percent since the first major survey on cheating in higher education in 1963. But 75 percent is a disheartening number for faculty, future employers, and the parents who are footing hefty tuition bills—not to mention for the five students out of every 20-person seminar who have pursued all their work honestly.

    Related
    4/1: Reports of misconduct at MIT climbed in last academic year
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    8/30/12: Harvard investigates students for cheating on final exam
    College administrators largely seem to have accepted the notion that the blame for cheating lies either at the feet of morally bankrupt students or within the overall campus climate. As a result, their efforts to reduce cheating have focused on creating first-year orientations or seminars on academic integrity, or on instituting deterrent measures like suspensions or expulsions for cheaters who are caught.

    But the stability of cheating rates over the past 50 years suggests that these efforts are not having their desired effect—and an interdisciplinary new line of research in education and psychology may help explain why. Increasingly, these findings point to a radical proposition: that the very nature of the college education we provide to our students, in both its design and delivery, may turn out to be the deepest cause of cheating on campus.

    We welcome students to campus with required classes that nudge them toward academic dishonesty from the beginning.


    In other words, it may be that cheating rates are so high because too many university curriculums and courses are designed for cheating. And, based on current trends in college education, the problem may be about to get worse.

    ***

    WE LIKE TO BELIEVE that people engage in dishonest behavior because they are dishonest. But recent research into cheating and dishonesty suggests a different conclusion: Most of us are willing to engage in acts of dishonesty under the right circumstances. As behavioral economist Dan Ariely demonstrated in a fascinating series of experiments and reported in his book “The (Honest) Truth about Dishonesty,” the extent to which people are willing to engage in acts of cheating and dishonesty “depends on the structure of their daily environment.” The structure of that environment proves more influential than an individual’s ethical profile or some general cultural milieu.

    At the same time, researchers in psychology and education have been slowly gathering evidence that certain features of the college curriculum, course design, and even daily classroom practice can either induce or reduce student cheating. And in gaining a new understanding of the problem, they are opening the door to possible new solutions.

    Perhaps most central is the question of how the university and its faculty motivate students to learn. Educational researchers typically distinguish between two broad types of learning motivation: extrinsic and intrinsic. Students who are driven by extrinsic motivation seek external rewards for their learning: They want praise from the teacher, they want good grades, they want honors and awards. Students driven by intrinsic motivation, by contrast, seek to understand the course material for its own sake; they find it fascinating, or useful, or meaningful, and relevant to their lives.


    ISTOCKPHOTO.COM

    Students driven purely by extrinsic motivation, it turns out, are more likely to cheat. They care about the reward for learning—the grade, the Latin honors—rather than the learning itself, and are willing to cut corners to get that reward. If they don’t see how the course material is relevant to their lives—or if the instructor cannot help them see it—they never develop the intrinsic motivation that leads to deep learning and makes cheating less likely.

    At most American universities, it’s traditional to begin the educational process with a type of class that sets up those motivations exactly wrong. Consider your typical introductory college lecture course. A student enters Major University and enrolls in History of Western Civilization. She is told this class is a requirement she must fulfill before she can take the upper-level courses she wants to take in her major. Because of the large size of the class, it consists of weekly lectures, in which the professor covers the key events and trends of a thousand years of western civilization. Grades will be determined by three exams. The professor warns students that those exams are difficult, and that only the best will earn the coveted As.

    For a student who loves history already, this class may work just fine. But for the average student in the lecture hall, a class like this one swims in extrinsic motivators. If you pass this class, you can take the classes you really want to take. If you find a way to do well on just three tests, you will earn the ultimate extrinsic motivator: a good grade. And if you earn a good enough grade, you will have the privilege of being considered one of “the best.”

    An introductory course like this contains several other features that researchers suggest are likely to induce cheating. Courses that rely upon infrequent, high-stakes assessments (such as three exams and nothing else) put intense pressure on each of those grade-earning opportunities, and ratchet up the incentive to cheat on each one. The professor’s warning about the difficulty of his exams and the accolades for students who earn high grades emphasize performance over learning—which also encourages cheating. Finally, the large class size makes it difficult for the students to develop a personal relationship with the professor, and this impersonal learning environment leads to higher levels of academic dishonesty as well.

    It should come as no surprise that students are less likely to cheat in upper-level classes in their majors: These tend to be smaller, more personal, more focused on the students’ own interests, and in general far more intrinsically motivating to students. But we welcome students to campus with required (and often overstuffed) classes that are designed to foster extrinsic motivation—and that nudge them toward academic dishonesty from the beginning.

    ***

    TO TACKLE the cheating problem, we need to redesign college classes to help students develop motivation of their own. Educational theorists tell us that people learn best when they are trying to answer a question, solve a problem, or meet a challenge that matters to them. You engage in intrinsically motivated learning when you research medical treatments for your sick child, learn about plumbing techniques to renovate your bathroom, or study Italian history in preparation for your trip to Rome. In those cases, you are learning because you see your subject matter as relevant to your life or your future.

    Many colleges and universities have made small-scale experiments with classes that tap into intrinsic motivation. Consider, for example, the Great Problems Seminars at Worcester Polytechnic Institute, an interdisciplinary first-year sequence of courses that asks students to confront major world problems and devise solutions. Students can elect to “solve” the problem of feeding the ever-growing world population with limited resources, or powering the world through economically feasible, sustainable methods. Courses are team-taught by faculty from different disciplines, and driven by student research. The history of western civilization looks quite different to a student charged with solving a fascinating great problem than to his peer in that introductory lecture course. Instead of seeing an endless series of names and dates, the students in a great problems seminar learn to look to history as a trove of experiences that may be useful to apply in the present. In a course like this, it would seem, there is little incentive to cheat.

    We know, in other words, how to build classes that lower incentives for cheating—they are the same type of classes that create better environments for learning. Unfortunately, many college and university administrators see dollar signs standing in the way of large-scale efforts to revamp the curriculum along these lines. Driven by budgetary pressures, they are turning in precisely the wrong direction, electing to push students toward massive, open online courses modeled on traditional classroom structures. An online course in the history of western civilization taught by a star professor giving high-tech video lectures just transfers the problems of an on-campus introductory lecture course to a larger and even more impersonal stage.

    But in spite of what cost-conscious administrators may fear, the changes suggested by this research do not necessarily mean smaller (and hence more expensive) classes. Students do cheat more in larger classes than small ones, but I suspect this stems more from course design than course size. Large classes are most likely to take the traditional approach of “coverage” of a subject, with little thought for how the material being covered matters to the students. Though small classes are nice when possible, what colleges really need are courses that have been designed with intrinsic motivation in mind, and that tap into the problems, questions, and challenges that will inspire students to learn deeply—and honestly.

    None of this is to say that the Harvard students are innocent. Students who cheat in higher education deserve appropriate punishment; we will not solve this problem by blaming ourselves and letting students off the hook. But as the pressures to make classes bigger and more economically efficient grow stronger, we should continue to monitor cheating rates in higher education—not simply to measure the moral values of our students, but as a barometer that can help us understand how well we are motivating them to learn, and how we can continue to improve.

    James M. Lang is the director of the Center for Teaching Excellence at Assumption College, and the author of “Cheating Lessons: Learning from Academic Dishonesty” (Harvard University Press).

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    Các h́nh thức học sinh sinh viên Mỹ gian lận






    Vụ án học sinh gian lận lớn nhất tại Mỹ ở Atlanta


    Các h́nh thức học sinh sinh viên Mỹ gain lận trong thi cử: cóp bi bài bạn bè, chép câu trả lời vào tay, copy bài học từ smart phone, chụp h́nh câu hỏi thi vào smartphone, truyền bài cho bạn...


    Vụ án học sinh gian lận tại Philadelphia Mỹ



    Vụ án sinh viên Havard Mỹ gian lận (nguồn: http://www.csmonitor.com/Commentary/...eating-scandal)
    Last edited by ezekiel; 23-08-2014 at 05:05 PM.

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    Vụ án sinh viên Havard đại học danh tiêng nhất ở Mỹ gian lận

    Harvard announced Friday that up to 60 students have been forced to withdraw "for a time" as a result of a cheating scandal. Farhad Manjoo argued in September 2012 that the students should be rewarded, not disciplined. The article is reprinted below.
    Last week, Harvard announced that it was investigating more than 100 students for cheating on the final exam of a course called “Introduction to Congress.” The class had a reputation for being easy, but many students found last spring’s open-book, take-home exam to be close to impossible. As a consequence, the kids apparently began to break the rules. Some students now face the possibility of being forced to take a one-year leave of absence from Harvard. A university official has called the case “unprecedented in anyone’s living memory.”

    Certain students’ conduct does seem to have been indefensible—accordi ng to the Crimson, the exam-related malfeasance included plagiarism. But many of the accused did not copy their material. Instead, they merely worked with fellow students and their instructors to make sense of the tricky exam questions. What they did—work together to find an answer—should be encouraged. But too often in higher education, such collaboration is either given short shrift or actively penalized. Students are instead forced to find the answers on their own, in marked contrast to how they’ll be expected to behave once they graduate.
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    Students who spoke to the New York Times said that collaboration was widely thought to be allowed in the course. The class’s teaching fellows—graduate students who graded the exams and ran weekly discussion sessions—varied widely in how they prepared students for the exams, so it was common for students in different sections to share lecture notes and reading materials. The course’s instructor—Matthew B. Platt, an assistant professor of government—and the teaching fellows sometimes encouraged collaboration. During the final exam, some fellows even worked with students to define unfamiliar terms and help them figure out what, exactly, certain test questions were asking.

    The test’s rules, though, explicitly prohibited such sharing. “The exam is completely open book, open note, open Internet, etc. However, in all other regards, this should fall under similar guidelines that apply to in-class exams,” the rules stated. “More specifically, students may not discuss the exam with others—this includes resident tutors, writing centers, etc.”
    What’s the point of prohibiting students from working together? If the students in “Introduction to Congress” act as these test rules demand when they move into the workforce, they’ll be fired. Outside of academia, teamwork is the rule. Collaboration is widely hailed as a primary factor in creativity and problem solving. It’s the reason Pixar’s offices are designed to foster, in Steve Jobs’ words, “forced collisions of people” from different departments.

    In this case, it’s the test’s design, rather than the students’ conduct, that we should criticize. In allowing students to consult a wide variety of sources, the Harvard exam was looking to assess something deeper than how well they could memorize and recall facts. Judging from some leaked questions, the test seemed to be designed to measure how students could think about some of the contradictions inherent in American government. (An essay question began, “Do interest groups make Congress more or less representative as an institution?”) But if you want to determine how well students think, why force them to think alone?

    Outside of Harvard, these students won’t face many situations in which they’ll be prohibited from consulting with other people. Instead, they’ll have to act exactly as the alleged “cheaters” did in this case. Here, students who had poor teaching fellows sought help from peers who had better instructors. When they found exam questions that asked about material that hadn’t been covered in the course, they worked together to figure out how to answer them. (Some of them may have had no other choice, as Platt canceled his own office hours during the final exam.) Rather than punishing these students, shouldn’t we be praising them for solving these problems the only way they could?
    Sure, the students’ collaborative work does make it difficult to assess individual performance—because many people’s answers sounded similar, instructors couldn’t determine who really understood the work and who was merely free-riding. Universities certainly still have an interest in measuring each student’s grasp of class material, and there are plenty of exam formats—in-class tests, timed essays, in-class discussions—that can do so. Open-book exams like the one for “Introduction to Congress,” though, are useful tools only when they’re collaborative. After all, the test allowed students to consult the Web, a medium that is built on teamwork. If students looked up stuff on Wikipedia or Quora, they would have been effectively discussing the exam with others. And yet online collaboration would have been kosher under the test’s rules, even though you’d be labeled a cheater if you posed the same question to your friend Laura rather than Quora. That distinction makes no sense.

    I suspect this arbitrary distinction reflects universities’ discomfort with collaboration. Talking about an exam with your friends feels like cheating. But it’s time we realized it’s not, and that teaching people how to work together is a critical skill. Today, in most areas of life—the government, the military, science, the corporate world—real breakthroughs occur in groups. It’s time our universities prized group work, too.

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    Tin mới nhất: hinh viên trường đào tạo thuỷ thủ Mỹ gian lận thi cử

    Navy Expels 34 Sailors in Nuclear Cheating Scandal

    By: Sam LaGrone
    Published: August 20, 2014 3:30 PM
    Updated: August 20, 2014 5:25 PM




    http://news.usni.org/2014/08/20/navy...eating-scandal


    The moored training ship Daniel Webster (MTS-626) begins its tow from Norfolk Naval Shipyard to Charleston, S.C. on 21 August 2012. More than 70 sailors assigned to the training ship had cheated on engineering watch stander exams. US Navy Photo

    A Navy investigation of a seven-year long cheating ring in one of its most renowned training schools has resulted in the expulsion of 34 sailors from the Navy and another 10 sailors remain under investigation, the service announced today. The investigation, begun when a sailor tipped off authorities in February, found more than 76 senior enlisted staff instructors (E-6s and E-7s) at the Naval Nuclear Power School (NNPS) in Goose Creek, S.C. had participated in a system to cheat on the classified engineering watch supervisor (EWS) qualification.

    The Petty Officers and Chiefs — assigned to the nearby Moored Training Ship 626 (the former USS Daniel Webster) Staff Training Group — created a network of thumb drives, CDs and emails known as the “Pencil File” aligned to the five versions of the EWS test, according to the Navy’s report of the investigation dated March 15 and released on Wednesday.

    Due to their positions, the sailors knew which version of the test would be scheduled and pass out the so called, “Pencil Number” to the cheaters.

    The Navy adjudicated 68 cases at Admiral’s Mast and found 36 sailors at the unit had been involved.

    “Punishment was suspended for two of the 36 sailors based on their minimal involvement and their strong potential for rehabilitation,” according to the report. The remaining 34 had their security clearances stripped and were booted from the service.

    A total of 78 personnel were found to have cheated on the EWS exam over the seven year period.

    Authorities were made aware of the cheating when a sailor reported the ring on Feb. 2. The next day both chief of naval operations Adm. Jonathan Greenert and head of Naval Reactors Adm. John Richardson held a press conference to address the issue.

    The Navy is now in the process of evaluating procedures in its nuclear testing enterprise and continuing to investigate how the ring operated for so long without being detected.

    “Appropriate actions will be taken to hold accountable officials bearing responsibility for allowing incidents of cheating at NPTU Charleston to continue undetected for at least seven years,” read a June 6 endorsement of the investigations findings by head of Naval Reactors, Adm. John Richardson.

    The Navy is now undertaking a comprehensive review into its nuclear training pipeline following the discovery of the ring.

    “This incident identified a number of areas in need of improvement in the Program. The NNPP has taken this as an opportunity to conduct a thorough self-evaluation, establish root causes, and apply appropriate corrective actions,” wrote Richardson.

    The Navy has 16,000 nuclear trained sailors who operate the reactors that power the service’s aircraft carriers and submarines.

    Unlike the Air Force, which continues to make headlines for cheating scandals related to the network of nuclear intercontinental ballistic missiles, Navy cheating on this scale has been rare and isolated to ongoing qualifications underway — most recently in 2010 onboard the USS Memphis (SSN-691).

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    Vụ án 4 2014: học sinh Las Vegas Mỹ gian lận

    Discipline may be decided in Vegas school cheating scandal

    Posted: Apr 16, 2014 2:47 PM CDT
    Updated: Jun 26, 2014 10:53 AM CDT
    Written by Matt Guillermo - bio | email


    The parking lot at Matt Kelly Elementary School is empty April 16, 2014, while students are on spring break. (Joe Lybarger/FOX5)
    LAS VEGAS (FOX5) -
    The Clark County School District superintendent could weigh in on disciplinary action against administrators of a Las Vegas elementary school that was the center of a standardized test cheating investigation.

    Superintendent Pat Skorkowsky was slated to meet with the Nevada State Board of Education via video link at 9 a.m. on Thursday.

    The meeting is scheduled to come a day after the Nevada Department of Education superintendent released the results of a probe into irregularities found in Criterion Referenced Test results at Matt Kelly Elementary School.

    In the investigation, education officials found answers on standardized tests in 2012 were changed by adults after scores were found to be significantly improved from the year before.

    The state superintendent, Dale Erquiaga, said on Wednesday the investigation into Kelly Elementary's CRT administration was launched after an anonymous report of irregularity.

    During the probe, investigators found math and reading scores were significantly higher in the 2012 test than the examination in the year before. After 2013 tests were taken under Clark County School District supervision, scores lowered significantly, prompting additional investigation, Erquiaga's office revealed.

    In addition, the state's test administrators observed what investigators called a "disproportionat ely high occurrence" of changed correct answers in the 2012 test. It was determined adults at the school had changed the answers, Erquiaga revealed.

    "I have no doubt that a testing irregularity occurred at this school, and that student answer sheets were altered by one or more adults in the system," said Erquiaga.

    The state superintendent also noted the security over testing was breached, but it was inconclusive to determine who had changed the answers.

    The test scores for 2012 will be invalidated, Erquiaga said.

    On Wednesday, CCSD Superintendent Pat Skorkowsky released a statement after the results of the investigation were revealed:

    "When CCSD officials first received test results from the 2012 standardized tests at Matt Kelly Elementary School, we immediately notified the Nevada Department of Education in writing and asked for a validation of the school's scores. I'm grateful that Superintendent Dale Erquiaga took action to investigate the concern when he took office last fall.

    "It is important that our community have faith in the validity of our standardized testing. We use our standardized testing results to monitor student achievement growth and assess the success of instruction in our schools.The Nevada Department of Education has conducted a full investigation and has concluded that irregularities occurred. Once I have had a chance to review the department's full report and recommendations, I will take appropriate action so our students, parents and community can move forward."

    CCSD Chief of Staff Kirsten Searer further insisted the irregularities found at the school were very rare.

    "We actually have referred other increases of student achievement to the state for investigation to the state before because we try to be very cautious with this and they have always come back to us and said that they had validated the scores," Searer said. "This is the first time in recent history at least that they have come back to us and said they think there is a problem."

    The state education department said letters of admonition were sent to CCSD involving administrators at Kelly Elementary. CCSD may consider disciplinary actions with educators at the school.

    In addition, three administrators at Kelly Elementary - Principal Patricia Harris, Assistant Principal Steven Niemeier and Associated Dr. Andre Denson - were placed on leave pending action by CCSD.

    Stay tuned to FOX5 for the latest on this developing story.

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    Tin mới nhất: học sinh tại Dallas tiểu bang Texas Mỹ gian lận



    Brittany Sowacke/The Dallas Morning News
    Umphrey Lee Elementary, once rated one of the best schools in Dallas, was discovered to have cheated on state STAAR exams.

    http://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/ed...ontrol-101.ece


    Published: 18 August 2014 07:37 PM
    Updated: 19 August 2014 10:04 AM





    Count us as shocked as parents at Dallas’ Umphrey Lee Elementary School about the cheating scandal there on state STAAR tests.
    The very fact that teachers connived to game the system is bad enough. It’s particularly nauseating that educators implicated in the scheme got their students involved, too. For one, students said they got to review test questions beforehand, and two, students said they were shown the right answers to pick while they were taking the exam.
    Perhaps the biggest disappointment is that parents of students caught up in this mess had to learn the facts through this newspaper.
    Despite uncovering the scandal last October, the district never notified the public. The administration divulged details only after reporters for The News — Matthew Haag and Jeffrey Weiss — saw that Umphrey Lee’s scores in 2014 had crashed from extraordinarily high levels the year before. Umphrey Lee was the only school statewide that fell from the top rank of achievement to failure on all four state indexes, and The News looked for an explanation last week.
    Only then did the district concede publicly that an internal investigation had uncovered the scheme last fall and that six educators had been forced out. Only then did the district act to terminate the principal, who had been reassigned.
    All of which raises the question: Wasn’t anybody going to tell anybody?
    Apparently no one even alerted Superintendent Mike Miles, his spokesman Jon Dahlander said yesterday. Really?
    Here’s some unsolicited damage-control advice for school administrators on the subject of cheating: If you sit on this stuff, it looks suspect. People remember too many cheating scandals nationwide that started with denials and obfuscation. Educators ended up going to prison out of El Paso and Atlanta cheating conspiracies.
    There’s no indication that Umphrey Lee’s STAAR scandal has tentacles beyond that campus. In fact, credit should go to internal investigators whose computer models found unusual patterns there and followed up by interviewing educators and students.
    But Miles needed to know, and the district needed to reach out to parents.
    There’s an indication that the Miles administration gets how badly the Umphrey Lee scandal was mishandled. Monday, his office divulged that three schools and three teachers have been implicated in separate irregularities involving a district test, the ACP, this past school year. Two more teachers are gone, and one may be on the way out.
    Beyond that, the district is contacting parents at the three schools so they’ll know what’s going on and can inquire about special help their children might need.
    That’s well and good, but why stop there? Parents of Umphrey Lee students who were caught up in cheating schemes deserve similar notification. It may be late, but it’s the right thing to do.
    With Miles’ new performance-pay plan for teachers, STAAR scores take on an entirely new dimension. The superintendent should make sure there’s no question about where he stands on educators who defy the rules.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tigon View Post
    ...

    Sau cùng , VN c̣n lại toàn là CÁN NGỐ
    Cứ như là thời VNCH không có t́nh trạng du học sinh không về nước. Cái vui là thời đó những tên ( thật là hiếm hoi, tôi không biết là có được 1/10 nếu không tính thành phần quân cán đi tu nghiệp vài tháng , một năm) khăn gói về nước bị bà con trong nước chê là quá kém để Tây Mỹ nó giữ lại xài.

    Cái boomerang Ezekiel quay trở lại nhưng hoàn toàn lạc đề, chỉ v́ một chữ CÁN NGỐ !!!
    Last edited by Lehuy; 23-08-2014 at 08:10 PM.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lehuy View Post
    Cứ như là thời VNCH không có t́nh trạng du học sinh không về nước. Cái vui là thời đó những tên ( thật là hiếm hoi, tôi không biết là có được 1/10 nếu không tính thành phần quân cán đi tu nghiệp vài tháng , một năm) khăn gói về nước bị bà con trong nước chê là quá kém để Tây Mỹ nó giữ lại xài.

    Cái boomerang Ezekiel quay trở lại nhưng hoàn toàn lạc đề, chỉ v́ một chữ CÁN NGỐ !!!
    Cám ơn b́nh luận gia chém gió Internet LeHuy chịu khó đọc những ǵ Ezekiel tôi post, ông chịu khó đọc và chém ... gió lắm. Tôi cũng không muốn đôi co nhiều với anh hùng bàn gí cho mệt v́ thế giới ảo Internet th́ chịu khó chém gió phùng mang trợn mắt đôi co tranh luận để được cài ǵ cho nhọc ḷng, tổn thọ chỉ v́ thích chém gió, anh hùng bàn phiếm như LeHuy. Lời nhắn: đừng bực bội nhọc ḷng v́ những ǵ người khác post không theo ư ḿnh, tổn hại sức khoẻ đó, cũng đừng chụp mũ người khác là VC v́ khác ư ḿnh làm như vậy th́ cũng có khác ǵ VC.

  9. #19
    Member Lehuy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ezekiel View Post
    Cám ơn b́nh luận gia chém gió Internet LeHuy chịu khó đọc những ǵ Ezekiel tôi post.

    ....
    Không có chi bác Ezekiel. Mỗi lần tôi vào Forum là đều lướt qua những ǵ các T/V post, ít ra cũng đọc sơ qua cái tít. Tất nhiên khi post lên Forum là đă có ư định chia sẻ rồi, được khen bài hay, viết đúng chủ đề th́ đó là một cái +, bị chê th́ tùy tính người. :rolleyes:

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    Cám ơn Anh Z-28

    Quote Originally Posted by Z-28 View Post
    Anh đùa kiểu này làm tui tức ngực quá . Nhưng mà đúng
    Cám ơn Anh Z-28 đã khen.
    Lâu lâu mới được một người khen. Thích quá.
    Hì hì hì

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